19 December, 2022

The Great Parent-No Kidding Divide

And a lesson in restraint

Spending two weeks with someone with kids can take its toll. Especially when they focus on things that affect them, display a complete ignorance of things that affect us, and it seems, have absolutely no desire to understand. Mainly, this manifests in the parent/no kidding divide. Of course! Are you surprised?

They implied that they had a greater understanding that “life is precious” because they had a pregnancy loss, premature twins, and were parents. Even when I pointed out that I had grieved our losses, they still didn’t in any way ask, show interest, or even any compassion. Because we don’t have kids, they think we don’t understand. Or that we are always going to agree with them.

They continually talked about legacy, meaning both biological legacy and other aspects of legacy. It struck me that it was all about recognition, about being remembered, rather than about their impact on other people. I think people without children are forced to focus on the second, on how we affect other people and what legacy we might leave with them, rather than whether we are recognised for it. Because for me, recognition is irrelevant, as within a few generations (or as few as one generation) we will be forgotten, just names on a family tree on a branch that ended. But maybe a kindness or some wisdom or role modelling will be passed on, and that is our legacy. It's a legacy that I hope I will have.

I heard a lot about how “sentimental” this parent was about their childhood, and maybe their parents. I think I should get a medal for NOT saying “you weren’t sentimental enough to come back more regularly!” Of course, they didn’t need to, and they used their children (as they still do, even though the children are grown) as an excuse.

I also heard a lot about how it is so very hard for a parent to see their child in pain. I don’t think I rolled my eyes, though the urge was strong. Not because I don’t believe them. Of course it is hard for a parent to see their child in pain. Any normal human finds it hard to see anyone vulnerable in pain, especially someone you love. I found it awfully hard to see my parents and parents-in-law in pain, both physical and medical. But really, were WE the right people to say those words to us, in that way?

We had to listen to an extended discussion of the birth of their children. (Over 20 years ago!) The children were premature, so it was scary, and I understand that. And I initially handled it well. But as they went into all the details, and expressed how wonderful it was to touch the babies and take them home, and as they talked about breastfeeding, etc, the scars of my wounds were being pressed over and over again, and it was harder and harder to take.

I restrained myself so often. You should be proud of me! I did not say that I knew exactly how old a niece was because she was three months old and visiting when I was losing my first pregnancy. I did not ask too much about someone we all know because I suspect (though I may be wrong) that IVF and donor egg may have been involved, and I don’t think it’s any of my business. I didn't equate our losses with theirs, or point out that we had also been through some of these things, or always put an opposing point of view. I, of course, found it easier to talk about old age than about the vulnerabilities of infertility and loss. Even though they know something about that. I often avoided wading into a compassionless quagmire simply to protect myself. And I gave myself permission to do that.

Sometimes, though, I very matter-of-factly pointed out our situation without children, and that some of their assumptions were wrong. I did it only when it seemed appropriate or there was an opportunity in the conversation, not aggressively, and tried to keep it open and honest, using our experience as the base example. But for the most part, I tolerated it all. I was in a marathon, and didn’t want to cause any more tension. And the worst thing is that I probably would not have made any difference if I had explained this.

I wasn’t expecting understanding, or even compassion. I usually don’t. Of course, I didn’t receive any either. So it all made me wonder if they honestly think we never felt, and don’t feel, any pain over what we have lost. That our lives aren't as important as theirs. Or if they don’t even see that we have lost anything, because (to quote another friend) “we never had anything to lose?” The answer is both, I think. It made me wonder too how many parents feel and think like this? Sure, this particular person may be especially lacking in compassion and self-awareness, and many other parents with kids don’t always make me feel like this. Some are wonderfully compassionate and open to learning about our experiences. But sadly, I suspect these views and discussions are very indicative of the majority of our fellow humans. As a result, I will admit to feeling rather bruised from this encounter.

6 comments:

  1. Dear Mali, I am so sorry that you are feeling bruised from this encounter. I am sending you many warm hugs from the other side of the Earth <3

    Who knows more then us how life is precious? I know you went through your losses. And I went through mine. I had to mourn the loss of our 10+ embrios. I had to mourn the loss of our dream which will never come true. Who dare to say that we didn't loose anything?

    It was only few days ago that I went to the cemetery because I wanted to put a beautiful small bouquet (Lavender & Spruce) that I made for my mom's cousin. She was always so kind to me! In her last years (marked by cancer fight) I brought her many books from our library... she loved reading so much!

    It was only when I put the bouquet to her grave, I realized that I also have a grandfather that I never knew there and that I could bring something for him as well. But for me, he is just a name in our family tree and a person from my mom's stories, but he wasn't part of my life.

    Much love,
    Klara

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  2. That sounds like a lot of very one sided conversations. I am amazed you could tolerate it for two weeks: I would be fleeing after a day or two.

    I wonder if people have the tendency to go on and on about themselves like that because they have grief and trauma they have never processed. We hired a doula when we had our babies and I recall one thing she always remembered to do was pay attention to my experience and transformation. The focus was not exclusively on the baby, whatever challenges were inevitably involved with that. Having a doula felt like a luxury in many ways (and it is, they are expensive). But I’m very glad we did, in part because she helped with that emotional piece and I see the value of it as life continues to unfold. We are all “made” by our experiences: they echo through the years. Sometimes we all need help to reflect on those experiences, to learn how to evolve from / in them. Sadly many do not get that help, or are not even aware they need it,

    Anyway, just me rambling in my turn, thinking about what you wrote….I hope the rest of your year is more emotionally restful!

    Síochána Arandomhan
    torthuiljourney.blogspot.com

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  3. Dear Mali,

    Reading this made me sad. Sad for you having to endure this for two entire weeks. I am sorry about that, too.

    You must know that you are a role model to many of us and that your wisdom is the most inspiring. Thank you for your continuing presence in the blogosphere. It is so valuable.

    I guess most people are wrapped up in their own lives and experiences. Most of them don't mean to hurt us. Many things just never occurr to them. It does surprise me though that someone may want to talk about the trauma of giving birth twenty years later to a childless person, of all people. That seems so selfish to me. They should go to therapy instead of bothering you!

    Sending you all my love and wishing you peaceful holidays <3.

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  4. Youch. I winced no less than 7 times when reading about this excruciating 2 weeks. This person (persons) must have some unresolved something to be so clueless about all the things, so self-involved.

    I suspect, based on what I'm observing in my own sphere around loss, that this person (persons) has a very small capacity for loss and grief. They can't quite get to compassion -- joining you in emotions -- because they get the "near enemy" of compassion instead (I'm just now learning about this: https://www.theblackbeltparent.com/the-near-enemy-of-compassion/#:~:text=The%20near%20enemy%20of%20compassion,person%20and%20is%20not%20shared.). It's a barrier to intimacy with you, that you represent their worst fears and they can't Go There with you.

    You, on the other hand, have done the hard work of resolving. I hope you are also healing from the bruising. I also hope that you are not put in such a position again anytime soon. Ugh.

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  5. Dear Mali
    I’m so sorry you had this experience. Once upon a time I thought that people who did this really didn’t know any better, I’d make excuses for them. Then I realised as I’ve aged and people who have known me for decades and are grandparents now still talk about these sort of topics with me there, the elephant in the room, mute - because what can I contribute? Zero… and if I do have a clumsy attempt at contributing chances are I’m spoken over or the subject shifts to yet another facet of parenthood/grandparenthood I’m not personally privy to, so there you go, silenced once again.

    I’m proud of you! For the restraint you showed… the tact at addressing things they mentioned that were assumptions… for managing to get through the marathon session of 2 weeks. You deserve a medal. As to the friend who once said you had nothing to lose… you lost a whole lifetime of experiences - twice over - and that is something these sort of people can’t open their minds up to, the sheer enormity of it all - and all disenfranchised grief too, because people make crass comments like your friend and minimise the whole involuntary childless experience.

    Hugest of hugs and so proud of you for remaining such a stalwart throughout the experience! xx

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  6. "You should be proud of me!" -- VERY proud of you, Mali -- bravo for enduring all this & more! :)

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